JeffPaik：2019韩国年度区块链Deconomy论坛

摘 要:“ Deconomy不看职位和社会地位，以是否具有专业性为依据邀请参与者。只有这样观众们才能学到更多的东西，我们也才能邀请到更多优秀的演讲者。”

《加油站》韩国站第10期访谈实录：

-Guest info-

Jeff Paik

The organizer of Deconomy. the post of Jeff's Brunch is kind of Blockchin textbook for Blockchain industry people in Korea. Jeff worked at Funbushi as a Analyst and Advisor, and He worked at R3 as a Consultant. and He is Co-Founder and CEO of Finector, and Co-Founder of Deconomy.

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Host：Deconomy是全球加密专业人权的前沿科技探索大会。这里聚集了全世界的行业领袖，比如比特币布道者Andreas M. Antonopoulos，以太坊创始人Vitalik Buterin，末日博士Nouriel Roubini，币安创始人Changpeng Zhao，IMF负责人等。今天的采访由W基金的代表李瑜利（Youree）来主持。

Deconomy is a renowned forum for distributed economy joined by global leaders including Andreas M. Antonopoulos, an author of ‘Mastering Bitcoin’, Vitalik Buterin, Nouriel Roubini nicknamed “Dr.Doom”, Changpeng Zhao from Binance, IMF officers etc. This interview will be conducted by Youree from W-foundation.

Lee：大家好，Deconomy跟我们财团也是合作伙伴关系，在座的各位都了解Deconomy吧？那接下来就有请Deconomy的创始人Jeff！

We, W-foundation is also working with Deconomy. Are you all coming to join Deconomy? Now let’s dive into Deconomy with Jeff Baik, the organizer.

Jeff您好！首先想问您第一个问题，您为什么会创立Deconomy呢？有什么重要的契机吗？

How did u first start planning "Deconomy"? How come you got interested in distributed economy?

Jeff：就我个人而言，一开始没有很刻意地去做这件事，刚开始也没有觉得要创造多大的社会价值。就是感觉和有趣的人在一起聊天非常有意思，然后就建立了这样一个平台。

I had no grand goals at first. I just wanted to create a platform where people can discuss. I had no vision to address important discourses or create social values.

Lee：原来如此。我和你有同样的想法。感觉今年行业的氛围去年4月不太一样了。您今年的目标是什么呢？

I am on the same page. This year seems quite different from April last year. What is your this year's goal?

Jeff：去中心化经济（distributed economy）一开始并没有具体的含义，Deconomy利用区块链技术可超越多种理念，我们可以把它看作一种论坛品牌。慢慢地，我们赋予distributed economy（Deconomy）更多特殊的意义。

"Deconomy" or "distributed economy" didn't bear any specific meaning at first. We thought “Deconomy” can encompass various concepts on top of the blockchain technology and can fit perfectly as a conference name. It is all about how we create the meaning to the term.

Lee：Deconomy这个名称就像是一个固有名词。我在这个行业从事了大概一年，非常地充实。另外Deconomy的魅力很足！您把各大企业大咖们聚集到Deconomy的秘诀是什么呢？

Deconomy now has become a proper noun. I am so glad to see this growth as one of the member of this industry. What attracted so many industry giants to deconomy?

Jeff：可能我和其他共同主办方的想法不太一样。就我个人而言，我认为这个论坛一定要公平！我们可以聚集各种不同想法或者相互矛盾的意见，如果主办方对一方有偏见或者偏向于一方，那这个论坛就没有什么意思了。我认为只有不同想法聚集在一起，人们才可以学到一些东西。同时我觉得论坛本身不应该限定大主题或者行业方向。如果想要成功进行类似Nouriel Roubini vs Vitalik Buterin的辩论的话，就更应该秉持公平。

I might have differing opinions from other organizers, but I think conference brand should be impartial. We can learn something and have insights when all the contradictory ideas and conflicting opinions should coexist. A conference itself should not present a certain direction of industry or discourse. In order to hold discussion between industry czars like Nouriel Roubini and Vitalik Buterin, a conference should be neutral and impartial.

Lee：我们准备的问题的顺序我可能会换一下。您竟然提到了Nouriel Roubini vs Vitaly Buterin，真是说到关键了。看看今年的主题，Nouriel Roubini vs Vitaly Buterin辩论真的是很有意思。请问您喜欢那种来回论辩吗？我曾经做过辩论会议的主持人，不知您更喜欢哪种方式？这次Deconomy大会的核心是在哪里？

I will change the order of questions. You mentioned Rubini and Vitalin. Do you prefer to have some intense discussion at conferences? I also have experiences as a moderator. What kind of atmosphere in the panel discussion do you like? And what is the most important focal point of this conference?

Jeff：业界大咖们来参加大型会议，是因为有其他的参与者。这些参与者不是靠着钱和名声参加这样的大会的。他们是为了和其他参与者交流而来，以碰撞出更多的火花。所以从一开始就要邀请非常专业的参与者。

Industry giants come to conferences because of other speakers. They come neither just to get paid for presence nor to deliver speech. They come to have a talk with other speakers and to create synergy. That is why it is important to invite “proper” speakers.

所以Deconomy并不看重参加者的社会地位或职位，即使大众们可能会比较关注他们的地位和职位。相对于名声和金钱，Deconomy更加注重他否具有专业知识。在Deconomy，我不会邀请职位高但不专业的人。

Deconomy do not invite speakers based on their social status or position, even though the public do care about it. We do care about their expertise rather than the position, so some of our speakers are not household names. Speakers with high social ranks without expertise are not invited to our conference.

Lee：也是啊！比如我们觉得像Nuriel Roubini一样的经济学家、教授参与的话，就会带动更多非区块链行业的人来参加，这样他们就能感受到区块链论坛、去中心化经济论坛、Deconomy等的魅力。

You have a point. We also were interested in your conference, which focuses on blockchain technology and distributed economy, as speakers like Nuriel Roubini or other economists/ professors with firm views are part of it.

Jeff：此次Deconomy的亮点就是Nouriel Roubini 和Vitaly Buterin。我个人非常期待Phil Zimmermnann的演讲。

So, the most expected session is the panel discussion between Vitalik Buterin and Nuriel Roubini. Personally, I really look forward to seeing Phil Zimmermann.

Lee：是的，我也很期待Phil Zimmermnann。我也想当一个Deconomy的听众，认真学习。

看这些Deconomy的主题，发现还有一些政治人士参加的政策论坛！这在之前的论坛中从来没有看到过。除了区块链行业，Deconomy好像对其他行业也很感兴趣。请问Deconomy做政策论坛的目的是什么呢？

I also look forward to seeing him too. I will join the forum as an audience to learn further about this industry. Deconomy also provides a policy forum where politicians can join. This is quite distinctive compared to other blockchain-realated forums. What do you expect from a policy forum?

Jeff：我并不负责这部分，所以可能无法代替共同主办方来回答该问题。但是可以说由于政策对产业发展有着重要的作用，所以政策论坛是必须的。虽然不期待通过论坛得到非常大的政策改变，但单就从在公开场所讨论政策的这一点来看，我认为这就是很大的进步。对政策的制定来说，政治人士的参与是必需的要素。当然无法确定最终是否会落地。

As I am not in charge of that forum, I cannot answer that question on behalf of co-organizers. We prepared that session because a policy plays an important role for the industry development. I do not expect to see some glamorous policy outcomes from one session, but it can be a good opportunity to discuss policies openly. Mere participation can be a starting point. I am not sure those participants can make policies into reality though.

Lee：我个人希望通过Deconomy的经济论坛能够更清楚地了解韩国政府对区块链产业的立场和政策。接下来的问题与我们讨论的相关。Deconomy和其他区块链会议有什么不同？现在虚拟货币市场持续萎靡，你觉得Deconomy对虚拟货币行业有什么影响？

I see. I personally hope that people can understand attitudes/ policies toward blockchain industry better through Deconomy policy forum. My next question is also related to previous one. Q4. What distinguishes Deconomy from other blockchain conferences? In continued bearish crypto market, what roles can Deconomy play?

Jeff：

我之前参加过很多论坛，总的来说不是很满意，原因大概有两点：

1. 售卖论坛。大多数都是宣传自己项目和公司。

2. 演讲者职位都是C级以上的，在相应领域的专业性并不强。

所以Deconomy一般不让演讲者宣传自己的项目和公司。当然，也有为初创公司提供演讲机会的会议，但是不多。在Deconomy中，所有的参与者能有一个展现自己专业程度和发表自己意见的机会，而不是宣传的机会。

刚刚也提到了，不看职位和社会地位，以是否具有专业性为依据邀请参与者。只有这样观众们才能学到更多的东西，我们也才能邀请到更多优秀的演讲者。

There are some discouraging points when I went to other conferences. For one thing, it was all about ‘sales’. That is, speakers delivered speech to promote their projects or companies. Next, most of the speakers are C-level officers lacking expertise in certain topics. Deconomy do not allow speakers to promote their projects or companies. We provide some sessions for start-ups to introduce their services, but still very limited. All the speakers are required to introduce their expertise and opinions, not to promote them. We invite speakers based on their expertise, not their social ranks. This is how we help the audiences to learn more, leading to a better environment to invite more suitable speakers.

Lee：这是我个人的想法，2018年和2019年的经济的宏观情况不一样。Deconomy怎样呢？和2018年相比，2019年的Deconomy有什么不一样呢？

I see some differences in terms of macro-economy between 2018 and 2019. Q3. What are the differences of Deconomy2018 and 2019?

Jeff：从原则来看基本上没有什么差别，只不过演讲者们的产业范围将会更加宽阔。今年相比去年将会有更对的经济学家、国际机构和学会参与，讨论的主题也将会从区块链扩大至经济。

Not much difference in its philosophy, but more speakers from various fields will join this time. More economists, experts from international organizations and academia will participate in the forum this year, which suits our endeavors to migrate our agenda from blockchain to economy as a whole.

Lee：我知道您邀请了很多世界知名的演讲者。请问您邀请他们时有什么技巧吗？

You did a great job in inviting renowned speakers. Can you share with us your negotiation skills?

Jeff：没有什么特殊的技巧。刚刚也有提到，演讲者们往往时看到周围的朋友有去也会选择去会。通过人际网络，如果引荐来几位优秀的专业的演讲者，那么他们就有可能带来更多更优秀的演讲者。当然偶尔需要我去说服。去年有David Chaum，今年有Phil Zimmermnann，Deconomy原则之一就是必须要尊重区块链行业的精英。

I didn’t need to negotiate with or persuade the speakers. As I mentioned earlier, speakers decide to join us based on the speaker list. If I could invite some speakers through personal connection, other speakers will naturally join as well. Sometimes, I need to persuade them. I had to persuade David Chaum (2018) and Phil Zimmermnann (2019) for hours over the phone. One of our philosophies is to honor the people who laid the foundation for blockchain industry.

我希望能够邀请更多像David Chaum和Phil Zimmermnann一样对加密技术和区块链市场作出贡献的人。他们之后都想再次参加，这种氛围似乎有助于我说服更多的人到Deconomy做演讲。

I hoped to bring those who contributed to the development of cryptology far before Bitcoin was invented to our conference and shine spotlight on them. My sincerity helped to persuade the speakers to join the forum too.

Lee：真的非常棒! 看到演讲者名单时很多热会惊讶到：“奥！居然有我们在教科书中看到的大牛们，真的是太神奇了！”Deconomy确实在给区块链行业做了实实在在的贡献。我们这些大咖们聚集在一起，一起讨论，一起合作。我想这些做起来一定都不容易。

请问您在做Deconomy有什么困难的地方吗？有特别难请到的演讲者吗？

That’s great. People that I invited to the conference also looked surprised by the speaker list, saying, ”I know him from the book. It’s amazing to see him in person at the conference”. Deconomy contributes to blockchain and crypto industry for sure. It is so amazing to see the pundits discussing at a conference. I assume coordinating speakers’ invitation isn’t an easy job. Q8. What was the most challenging work while preparing the conference? Which speaker was the hardest to invite?

Jeff：其实邀请演讲者并没有那么难。反而演讲者组队才是最难的。先定下主题再寻找演讲者，有可能会出现演讲者与主题不符合的情况，所以不能轻易邀请。因此，我们先不定主题，通过产业趋势来定。遵从产业趋势把演讲者聚集到一起，这样就能找到对同一主题有不同见解的演讲者候选人。也就是，产业趋势的范围比辩论主题更加宽泛。多参加几次论坛，会发现由于演讲者从事相同的行业，所以总觉得都是雷同的会议，这样的论坛也不会有多大的成果。因此要想让论坛变得有意义，演讲者组队的重要性不容忽视。

It was not that difficult to invite speakers. Setting up panels with speakers was quite demanding. Deciding panel theme first and searching speakers next should be avoided, as some speakers do not fit in the session theme. We have to focus on the industry trend to gather panelists. Considering “Trend” rather than “Theme” is broader approach. Organizing panelists who are involved in adjacent industries does not guarantee fruitful results. Making optimal combination of panelists is a tough job.

Lee：我非常期待Deconomy能够通过辩论创出更多骄人成绩。估计这些主题和名单都是您深思熟虑之后的答案吧？如果让您选一组您最期待的，您会选择哪一组呢？

I really look forward to constructive results from Deconomy. You must have considered about themes and agendas. Who excites you most among the panelists?

Jeff：一共有三组：

- Vitalik Buterin vs. Nuriel Roubini.

- Richard Gendal Brown, George Ornbo, Maya Zehavi, Stanley Yong (企业区块链论坛)

- Zooko Wilcox, Phil Zimmermann, Vitalik Buterin (个人论坛)

There are three exciting panels,

- Vitalik Buterin vs. Nuriel Roubini.

- Richard Gendal Brown, George Ornbo, Maya Zehavi, Stanley Yong (panelists for Enterprise Blockchain)

- Zooko Wilcox, Phil Zimmermann, Vitalik Buterin (panelists for Privacy)

Lee：您这么举荐，那我也得去看看了。您您推荐这三个的理由是什么呢？

I definitely want to join those 3 panels, as you recommended. Can you tell us what you are so excited about?

Jeff：Vitalik Buterin vs. Nuriel Roubini 在推特上就非常引人注目，全球人都在期待中，一定会很有趣的。Roubini的理论大家估计都很清楚了，但是Vitalik让人捉摸不透。 Richard Brown, George Ornho等是代表区块链企业的CTO们，他们讨论的主题主要是和技术相关。制作PGP（优良保密协议）的Phil Zimmermann，零知识证明(Zero—Knowledge Proof)技术专家Zooko等聚集在一起的讨论就是个人形式的。我相信这非常有历史意义。

Discussion between Vitalik Buterin and Nuriel Roubini was controversial on twitter before. We can expect some exciting scenes this time again. Nuriel Roubini is well-known for his logical remakrs and Vitalik Buterin is unpredictable, which makes the discussion more exciting. Richard Brown, George Ornho and other representative CTOs in Enterprise Blockchain also have session, where I look forward to tech-related discussion. “Privacy” will be a historic panel with panelist like Phil Zimmermann(who invented PGP) and Vitalik Buterin, Zooko(expert in Zero-knowledge proof technology ).

Lee：我们的基金也跟三星、世界银行、联合国等企业和国际组织一样对区块链表现出非常大的热情。有很多人联系我们说要参加Deconomy。我想Deconomy的魅力就在于Jeff介绍的专业性吧。距历史时刻的到来只有一周的时间了！一周后，让我们在韩国奖忠体育馆相聚吧！

接下来是最后一个问题。听说KAKAO子公司的代表想参加Deconomy都说没有座位了呢！太厉害了！相信Deconomy未来一定是虚无坐席。对大众来说，您觉得一定要参加Deconomy的理由是什么呢？

I could feel high interest in blockchain from large companies and international organizations such as Samsung groups, World Bank, UN as well as my foundation. Many people intend to join Deconomy for those reasons you mentioned. A historic forum is just one week away. Hope to see you all at Jangchoong stadium! Here is my last question. Q9. Last year, you had big success. It rumored that the CEO of Kakao group (Korea’s No.1 messaging app) subsidiary couldn’t get a ticket to Deconomy. Fingers crossed for the success this year again. What is the reason that people should join Deconomy?

Jeff：我相信在Deconomy论坛上认真倾听一定能够学习到很多东西。Deconomy不仅帮助大家建立网络，还能减少信息的壁垒，这是Deconomy的本质。能学到多少取决于自己的行动。当然，我们还有很多有趣的、丰富多彩的活动，比如networking活动、after-party等。另外我希望有一个2019年第一季度的季度活动。

You can learn a lot from the speech and panel discussion. Our goal is to ease the access to information as well as facilitate networking. It depends on how much you learn from our conference. We also have various events like networking session, after-party etc. on the sidelines of main conference. This will be a meaningful event to conclude the first quarter of 2019.

Lee：我还有一个问题。大部分区块链大会的价格都很高，这次只有1/3，大概10万韩币，请问降价的理由是什么呢？

Last question. Usually, tickets to blockchain conference are extremely pricey. Deconomy 2019 lowered the ticket price to1/3 compared to last year. Any specific reasons for this?

Jeff：大概有两个原因：

1. 去年由于座位少所以很多人说特别遗憾没能去得了Deconomy，现在我们有了一个更大的空间，更多的人可以来参加，所以降低了价格；

2. 当然还有市场不景气的原因。

A. We wanted more people to come to our conference and enjoy it. So we rented more spacious venue this time and lowered the ticket price. Another reason is sluggish economy and people’s thin wallet.

Lee：今晚的参访就到此结束。非常感谢Deconomy的创始人Jeff 和W-foundaion的CEO李瑜利（Youree）。如果您想更多了解Deconomy，请访问www.deconomy.com。

Thank you all for joining us for the interview at this late. I want to send special thanks to Jeff Baik and Youree, CEO of W-foundation. You can check more information about the conference at www.deconomy.com